Transcript

00:00:02

I.

00:00:05 Todd

It seems in almost every interview I do with someone from the construction industry, there is a discussion about the need for qualified trained trades people.

00:00:16 Marty

So.

00:00:17 Todd

When I had.

00:00:17 Todd

Chance to speak with Marty Riesberg Electrical Training Alliance director.

00:00:22 Todd

I jumped at the opportunity to understand the current state of electrical training.

00:00:27 Todd

The Electrical Training Alliance or ETA, created in 1941, was made to standardize the training for the Nika employers and the electricians that work for them so they can be more mobile.

00:00:39 Todd

They work with over 300 training centers, or JTC's, across the country.

00:00:44 Todd

Marty began his electrical training at Western Iowa Technical Community College, then worked for a residential contractor.

00:00:51 Todd

And join the Omaha Joint Electrical Apprenticeship and training Committees inside program. After completing the program.

00:00:57 Todd

He became a journeyman inside Wireman in 2001. He was named assistant training director for the Omaha Electrical JTC and served as an instructor for seven years. A member of IB EW LU22 since 1992.

00:01:13 Todd

Marty joined the NJATC in 2006 to develop a building automation curriculum and later became director of Curriculum Development, overseeing curricula.

00:01:22 Todd

For around 300 local training centers, he currently manages the electrical training alliances training partner program.

00:01:30 Todd

He holds a Bachelors in Business administration from the National Labor College and a Masters in leadership from Georgetown University.

00:01:38 Todd

Marty and I are going to discuss on this show, how training is changing and where it's moving forward to support the industry.

00:01:38

Uh.

00:01:45 Todd

Welcome to keeping the lights on.

00:01:47 Todd

I'm your host, Todd Reed, and on this podcast I connect with the owners and pros who design, build and maintain our electrical, communications, and industrial world to explore the best ways forward.

00:01:56 Todd

Hey, before we get to the interview, I do want to ask if you can help support.

00:02:00 Todd

The show, by taking a moment to subscribe and or follow and by leaving a five star rating or a thumbs up on your favorite podcast player and on YouTube.

00:02:10 Todd

OK.

00:02:11 Todd

Thanks, my begging is.

00:02:12 Todd

There, let's get into the show.

00:02:17 Marty

Marty, if I were to visit you or one of the guests or audience members to visit you in your hometown, where might you take us to eat?

00:02:23 Marty

Well, that's that's.

00:02:24 Marty

We always break up Brett, right?

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Have those.

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To do everything over break and bread.

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Think Ross whenever.

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We have everybody in the.

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We go to Jerry's seafood, OK?

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The home of the crab bomb.

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Crab bomb it is.

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By.

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Far the best crab you'll ever have anywhere.

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Filler no.

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It's just sort of our spot.

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A comfort.

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It's it's we're familiar that and then we bring everybody in and really have authentic Maryland.

00:02:51 Marty

All right, Marty, you've seen you've been in this side of the business for a while, the education side.

00:02:55 Marty

How is the role of like the traditional classroom involved over the past few years?

00:03:02 Marty

I think really it's evolved in the idea that that one I came through apprenticeship in only we have 3 ring binders and imprinted material and everything there. And now we've transitioned to online content where they're doing most of their homework online and we're in the the process, right.

00:03:17 Marty

Of really taking that to the next.

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Level and and having.

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What we call computer mediated learning that's going on in students really in our thinking, the content away from the classroom, so that.

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Able to.

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When they get to the.

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Get your ideas where they spend more time with their hands on the material, hands on tools doing the applications so that you'll.

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Learn a little bit more, but 2 they got into the tree because they like working with their hands, so now you're not sitting in a classroom being lectured to or lecture.

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Take care of.

00:03:55 Marty

So we're outside the classroom in an online environment on your phone, tablet, whatever else it is.

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Then move on there.

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That's the.

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Yeah, yeah, we've seen that.

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Pre-K to you.

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Advanced education as well.

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What are some of the main challenges with this transition from the traditional to the tech driven?

00:04:15 Marty

I think it's it's changed.

00:04:17 Marty

Like anything else, it's it's a matter of change.

00:04:20 Marty

And all of the people.

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You my age, your age, that have.

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For a number of years.

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Having to teach a little bit differently and the problem is the changes.

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I understand that.

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At least I hope I was successful.

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Was teaching right?

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So why do I have to change?

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We have to create some level of urgency for them.

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To make them see that.

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Hey yo, we need more people quicker. We need you.

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The technological changes.

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All these other things are out there so.

00:04:49 Marty

Change really is the key, as you put it there.

00:04:52 Marty

That we have to understand and.

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Of us. Almost.

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A6 level when you see how you have to change your immediately, you've got like this theological react.

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You can't tell me and. And that's really our our biggest thing.

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We.

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Say that those instructors have been successful.

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So we have to really proach through it and.

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Through it.

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Really.

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It show the benefits of of this change for them and changes.

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So that's been our biggest.

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How is the? You know, there's some thought like so can you.

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You're not printing these binders and these huge books.

00:05:32 Marty

Is the is.

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Cost impediment to this, like transitioning, is there more cost or?

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What's that working?

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It's roughly the same. The problem is it's to your point, we don't have that printed stock anymore, but it's harder to make online content than.

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Is to put.

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Word Doc on a piece of paper.

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Print it.

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Yeah. So there's it's sort of a wash, I think from the student standpoint, he's not.

00:05:55 Marty

Much difference in cost, but there are advantages that I think that's one of the primary the interesting things that we see here is that it's not necessarily the students that all about this, the students love it.

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You know, in fact they.

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Us what took?

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So far out and come you're not already doing this.

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We grew up this way.

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It's people you're not high age that that are waited used to what we were doing before and and that's really the big change the students.

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Embrace it, love.

00:06:26 Marty

Are the training centers have to invest in more computers and technology themselves?

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Maybe a cost that's involved with this?

00:06:33 Marty

Well, certainly when we let the blended learning that was a big, you know and we did by 10 years ago made that switch. And the big thing then was.

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How much Internet am I going to need?

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Much bandwidth.

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At this point, we were concerned when we made the switch.

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Every student have a laptop.

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Now the question is, it's a little boy, right?

00:06:53 Marty

You know, they're all moving towards gaming and all these other things that they're like well.

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Are.

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Going to have your content that VR headset.

00:07:00 Marty

Something needs that way.

00:07:02 Marty

So. So that's sort of the next potential evolution.

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Where would.

00:07:06 Marty

Yeah, well, down the.

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Towards.

00:07:08 Marty

Yeah. Yeah, we'll touch on a few minutes here. I've heard of something called the lipped classroom.

00:07:16 Marty

I wonder if you can maybe explain how this got cut. What does that?

00:07:19 Marty

And then maybe explain how this model is different from traditional learning environments and the challenges it presents.

00:07:24 Marty

Yeah, a flip classroom is is really just the juxtaposition of.

00:07:30 Marty

Switching of.

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Roles where when we were in in grade school.

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High school.

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We had our learning take place when we were.

00:07:39 Marty

And then you go home and do some homework and come back and get lectured at or lecture to again. This flipped classroom idea is that we can use the technology through animations, through video, through all the other things out that learning takes place.

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Apart from the classroom, so that when I'm in the classroom the instructors role.

00:08:00 Marty

Is to ameliorate for me big.

00:08:02 Marty

You know, I didn't understand that last I got stuck here.

00:08:06 Marty

Can you help me out here?

00:08:08 Marty

Journey level worker.

00:08:09 Marty

The.

00:08:10 Marty

You've been through this. You can tell me at that point.

00:08:13 Marty

Look you you made a little mistake over here.

00:08:16 Marty

And you also made two flipping of the classroom is changing the wall of the instructor and the student in the time that they're together.

00:08:24 Marty

Flipping. OK.

00:08:27 Marty

That's really good.

00:08:28 Marty

So you read it and you go apply it and make corrections. And of course that stuff is available full on demand, right?

00:08:35 Marty

If I synchronous yeah, so I can learn it.

00:08:37 Marty

Try it and then I can go back and look about like, OK.

00:08:40 Marty

What I get messed up or?

00:08:41 Marty

Right. The beauty of is.

00:08:43 Marty

Anytime, anywhere that that asynchronous things.

00:08:46 Marty

It can learn what I feel that I'm ready.

00:08:48 Marty

Learn.

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You're ready to teach me?

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When I'm ready to.

00:08:51 Marty

Yeah, that's one of the big advantages of flip flops.

00:08:55 Marty

Is that ability to really on demand?

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Know what you want.

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When you need.

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It OK.

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What the stage is and didn't.

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Well, I think we've seen some different the new generation of people coming up have a little bit of different skill sets than maybe what was available.

00:09:17 Marty

I hate to say this when you and I were going through school, but you know they the old generation. That sounds weird.

00:09:24 Marty

We're old guys, yeah.

00:09:25 Marty

Well, so let me I'm going to start that question over again and like the way I did that.

00:09:31 Marty

With today's environment, with the new generation of available workforce, their skill sets are coming into the schooling with and also the struggle to find enough workers to do the work.

00:09:41 Marty

How's this impacting what contractors are expecting out of the training centers?

00:09:47 Marty

That's good that they're expecting different things and I think it's.

00:09:50 Marty

We're coming from.

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Or the learners are coming from a different perspective.

00:09:55 Marty

When we grew up.

00:09:57 Marty

We were hands off on everything I.

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By all kids.

00:10:01 Marty

They're not really very good with.

00:10:03 Marty

Hammer their hand or.

00:10:04 Marty

They're haven't had that exposure. We would work on cars or.

00:10:08 Marty

You're really build up the game and give me full line piece.

00:10:12 Marty

So now I'm these lookers.

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On.

00:10:15 Marty

Contractor John site. That's the other transition where they have to have now shifted.

00:10:23 Marty

More that how to use your hands at the end how to use the tools to the JTC that maybe didn't take place at the JPC before that's really was driving this flip classroom. You more hands on and have more.

00:10:37 Marty

Of that hands on radio for me.

00:10:39 Marty

I learned to Congo offending.

00:10:41 Marty

On the jobs.

00:10:42 Marty

Right. We teach cobblestone.

00:10:46 Marty

So that's a a change or an evolution in all these things happen and that's why that technology is needed because we can't spend the time lecturing anymore.

00:10:56 Marty

Got to put our hands on conduit and.

00:10:59 Marty

Do the bends there in the school so that when they hit the job site they're productive because the contractors, that's the other thing is, is this spent a lot of time in our ship looking up right in the jury, yeah.

00:11:14 Marty

In the thought that I understood it, the mind that the body.

00:11:17 Marty

See Barry, you go up.

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I'm being coached from the other direction, OK?

00:11:22 Marty

Than less of.

00:11:23 Marty

Opportunity with the tighter and tighter morphines in the industry there go well.

00:11:23

For tuning.

00:11:27 Marty

So, I mean, there's fewer bodies to do the work and yeah, so they can't necessarily afford to train you as an apprentice.

00:11:35 Marty

They do this, you know, they need you. I.

00:11:38 Marty

What you tell what I'm hearing is they need to be more ready to hit the ground running when.

00:11:43 Marty

Job site, right and so more productive quick.

00:11:46 Marty

Yeah. So the contractors need that, but your people coming in don't necessarily have those skills. So you have to teach those.

00:11:52 Marty

Yeah, so the virtual learning environment would allow you to teach some of those basic skills.

00:11:57 Marty

I remember one of the tool companies used to have a little book, you know, and it was almost like how to use a screwdriver, how to use like you think.

00:12:05 Marty

Oh, I can use a.

00:12:06 Marty

There's just little techniques and things, so that's interesting.

00:12:09 Marty

That's that's cool. OK.

00:12:12 Marty

All right.

00:12:12 Marty

Well, we talked.

00:12:13 Marty

We mentioned just in time training we mentioned that so.

00:12:16 Marty

How does this approach benefit the learning process and what what feedback are you hearing from the the?

00:12:21 Marty

So that's one of the beauties of this idea of being online is that we can do it just in time.

00:12:27 Marty

And yet I can get ready to walk in.

00:12:29 Marty

Do a particular task.

00:12:31 Marty

I remember doing.

00:12:32 Marty

Did the JTC in the classroom in the training center.

00:12:35 Marty

We just pull up the.

00:12:36 Marty

To 30 seconds here and review that.

00:12:39 Marty

How all of a sudden that's it's becoming.

00:12:41 Marty

Bringing it to the line and having it that much more accessible as we do it, and that's really the beauty of having these things online to.

00:12:51 Marty

Accessible at any pointer.

00:12:52 Marty

Asynchronous is what we call.

00:12:54 Marty

Available whenever you.

00:12:56 Marty

It when you need it to do that.

00:12:57 Marty

That's.

00:12:58 Marty

That's a nice advantage of having this.

00:13:01 Marty

Well, I mean, I'll tell you the the way that, I mean I even do it now like I said, the young generation, every generation does this.

00:13:09 Marty

What if I need to figure out how to do something?

00:13:11 Marty

Where do I go?

00:13:12 Marty

I go straight to YouTube so little like there has a good example.

00:13:15 Marty

That I'm assuming is a professional. Sometimes you can do that or not, but sometimes they're just experts in their field and that's how you learn how to fix that thing in your car or in your house. And and I know that professionals do this too, because I got.

00:13:27 Marty

The elevator with a guy in a.

00:13:29 Marty

In a H1 time and he was watching a video.

00:13:31 Marty

I figured he was watching the I don't know. Whatever video, silly video, but as I sit there.

00:13:36 Marty

Like at least learning how to do the job.

00:13:39 Marty

Think he was getting ready to go?

00:13:40 Todd

Was like kind of.

00:13:41 Marty

Cool little disturbing too, but.

00:13:45 Marty

Yeah, you know, whatever. I mean, you got to learn it all.

00:13:47 Marty

You can't learn everything, so I am curious.

00:13:49 Marty

To that.

00:13:50 Marty

What's your view of that? The role?

00:13:53 Marty

I don't know what to call.

00:13:54 Marty

I'll call them independent just because they're not a part of a school. Kind of that learning that people are doing.

00:14:00 Marty

How does that do you think that's a good thing, or does it kind of war you or thing?

00:14:04 Marty

So I'm talking about those things that are on social media and YouTube and.

00:14:07 Marty

That, I think as an augmentation, they're.

00:14:10 Marty

You have to be careful to your point with the source.

00:14:13 Marty

You know that there's some out there that have been, you know, almost beaten up, you know, almost defender's name. But, you know, all of our students know that. I remember that video.

00:14:22 Marty

Guy.

00:14:23 Marty

OK, sort of.

00:14:24 Marty

Full of that, but there's longing in that as well.

00:14:27 Marty

Yeah, you can see some like do.

00:14:29 Marty

At the wall away.

00:14:30 Marty

Yet.

00:14:30 Marty

These are you there.

00:14:31 Marty

That can't be the only source. Yeah, here's.

00:14:34 Marty

But you know, there's certainly anytime you could augment and and see something done or explained by somebody in another life, right.

00:14:44 Marty

I learned find the way that I.

00:14:45 Marty

It but.

00:14:47 Marty

Perhaps you have to see.

00:14:48 Marty

Just a little bit differently or from a different angle than I know from the structures you apply that was sometimes.

00:14:55 Marty

A little bit almost discouraging, right?

00:14:58 Marty

I'm trying to explain something in every possible.

00:15:01 Marty

That I can.

00:15:02 Marty

You can see the student struggle struggles you, his body sitting beside him at the desk is 2 words.

00:15:08 Marty

I got it.

00:15:09 Marty

He's like a what?

00:15:10 Marty

The world, yeah.

00:15:11 Marty

So I think your.

00:15:12 Marty

That's the beauty of all of these online these little snippets.

00:15:16 Marty

Just see.

00:15:17 Marty

Way to do it again.

00:15:19 Marty

That may be the stimulus or.

00:15:21 Marty

Last little piece you need.

00:15:23 Marty

Yeah.

00:15:23 Marty

Someone might just say something just slightly that resonates with me like that you couldn't do.

00:15:28 Marty

So yeah, that's.

00:15:29 Marty

That's cool that you see that as a compliment.

00:15:32 Marty

To augment that.

00:15:33 Marty

All right, we let's talk a little bit about the.

00:15:35 Marty

You you mentioned you know, VRAR augmented reality virtual reality.

00:15:39 Marty

So can you share maybe any success stories or experiments that you've seen that have shown promise in this area?

00:15:45 Marty

Yeah.

00:15:46 Marty

We're interested in doing these sorts of things in areas that may be unsafe, right?

00:15:51 Marty

We need to train our workers.

00:15:54 Marty

How to work for instance?

00:15:55 Marty

You smell like her.

00:15:57 Marty

We don't want a student in front of an energized electrical panel.

00:16:01 Marty

All of a sudden there's this conundrum, right?

00:16:03 Marty

We got to do it, but we don't want to do it.

00:16:06 Marty

That's a perfect application of VR, particularly the not so much a over there.

00:16:12 Marty

You'll in.

00:16:13 Marty

Virtual world I could be in a panel and I can do that.

00:16:16 Marty

Quite honestly, if the students got.

00:16:19 Marty

In some spot.

00:16:20 Marty

Or the virtual world, not the real. Yeah, the the other application that we're sort of playing with are things where.

00:16:27 Marty

It's.

00:16:27 Marty

Hard.

00:16:29 Marty

Take for instance, maybe a winter.

00:16:33 Marty

All sorts of wind work going on.

00:16:34 Marty

Yeah, you know. So, so now all of us can get up into the cell and try them to 300 feet be exposed.

00:16:40 Marty

That, sure, but.

00:16:42 Marty

We can put them in a virtual world up in that this. Well, if we've had the 360 photos.

00:16:46 Marty

All those different things how when they get to that new environment now all of a sudden, hey, I've been here before, at least mentally been there before.

00:16:55 Marty

Another application of that that we sort of played around with or talked about at least is.

00:17:02 Marty

Like on a nuclear facility, you're not going to go walk in the nuclear plant and buy a be familiar with it, but you always have these really tight tie rods.

00:17:12 Marty

What? How about at the last shot out of the fire? Shut down. We take all the images.

00:17:18 Marty

All of a sudden we expose Todd to that nuclear world, that nuclear site before they're there.

00:17:24 Marty

When?

00:17:24 Marty

Show up. Everything's familiar and it.

00:17:26 Marty

Be that much more.

00:17:27 Marty

Hit the ground running.

00:17:29 Todd

Have you?

00:17:30 Marty

I don't know if you've.

00:17:30 Marty

I haven't really seen any studies on this, but.

00:17:32 Marty

You seen any studies of like the effectiveness of the transition from virtual reality to reality?

00:17:38 Marty

Like is there some?

00:17:41 Marty

Not trying to think of the success rate of just learning in a book versus, well, the book and the train.

00:17:47 Marty

Yeah. So the efficacy, yeah. Thank you.

00:17:49 Marty

How effective is that training, and really it's about the experiential form and in whether it's it's really physical hands.

00:17:59 Marty

Or in the virtual world to some degree, our brains don't tell the difference.

00:18:06

Right, we've been there.

00:18:07 Marty

We have experienced.

00:18:09

What went on?

00:18:10 Marty

Now I tell you at the same time.

00:18:12 Marty

We're never going to be able to do all of the conduit bending well virtual.

00:18:17 Marty

I have to feel the tension of the pipe.

00:18:21 Marty

But I would submit that we can be so much more productive and use.

00:18:30 Marty

Fewer pieces of conduit, but long way because I took the wrong measurement. I put the Bender.

00:18:35 Marty

The wrong way.

00:18:36 Marty

That should all be cut, although we could be that.

00:18:38 Marty

More effective when we're on the real world.

00:18:42 Marty

We've been through look at yet that makes sense.

00:18:45 Marty

You know, I've heard of kind of been diving into the racing world's auto.

00:18:50 Marty

Yeah. And that they have seen some transition from people who do the SIM racing, which is really good now at affordable level to transitioning to, you know, racing back.

00:18:58 Marty

I just watching YouTube video about a guy doing that and it's pretty interesting how how effective it is and it actually works so.

00:19:04 Marty

It and and to a large degree, and you talk about maybe unsettling.

00:19:09 Marty

But a large amount pilot training is done virtually and not in the airplane.

00:19:14 Marty

Yeah, 100%.

00:19:16 Marty

Yeah, there's very little other in that.

00:19:18 Marty

At the very end, yeah.

00:19:20 Marty

So sure, I think that's another after a piece.

00:19:22 Marty

Know if they can do it that way.

00:19:25 Marty

We'd be a little more effective with.

00:19:27 Marty

Yeah. You know, all these people's lives are is.

00:19:29 Marty

Right. Yeah. And again, a little bit of transition with cost with the headsets, right?

00:19:34 Marty

Other the computer equipment and all that.

00:19:36 Marty

I think yeah, that could be.

00:19:37 Marty

Interesting. Alright, well, let's looking into the.

00:19:40 Marty

Where do you see the biggest chat changes and innovations and training methods happening?

00:19:45 Marty

I think just continuing to be open to different ways to do things we don't know it's going to be right.

00:19:52 Marty

Who would have thought five years?

00:19:54 Marty

Ten years ago, we didn't even consider something in a virtual world to be training.

00:19:59 Marty

Vegas beat opens ideas and being willing to change, particularly because our industry. How much change is required on the electrical construction industry or the construction industry in gender? The robots on the job sites, all these different things.

00:20:14 Marty

You know, and there is so much desire now.

00:20:17 Marty

For power in a eyes all great.

00:20:20 Marty

But you know what?

00:20:21 Marty

There's a lot of data center. You gotta get made to make that work, and they use a lot of power, tons and tons.

00:20:26 Marty

Know I saw something the other day and I'm sure all of us saw that.

00:20:30 Marty

They just bought my eye where Microsoft is actually putting a retired nuclear plant.

00:20:37 Marty

I go online just to supply their data, yeah.

00:20:40 Marty

It's unbelievable. In Amazon bought a reactor as well.

00:20:44 Marty

I got many wives talking to someone about.

00:20:46 Marty

That's that's pretty wild.

00:20:47 Marty

And you want good trained people working.

00:20:49 Marty

Oh my gosh, yes, please. Can you imagine please?

00:20:51 Marty

What's?

00:20:52 Marty

You mentioned that I'm. I'm kind of. So we're at the Nika show recording this and I'm looking over Marty scholar. And there's a sign from Nika says from grid to greatness. The promise of electrification.

00:21:01 Marty

So we're still on that little electrifying the industry.

00:21:03 Marty

That's pretty cool.

00:21:05 Marty

Well, finally.

00:21:06 Marty

It's been great having you here and I appreciate you taking some time away from the show.

00:21:09 Marty

Know you have a kind of a busy schedule here and so this.

00:21:12 Marty

Great, but what? What?

00:21:14 Marty

Your passion for education and training and what keeps you motivated in in facing these challenges.

00:21:19 Marty

I think it's the, you know, as I sort of talked about earlier, it's it's seeing that like go on for a student knowing that you are having an effect somebody'd ability to make a living for themselves to provide for their family to do these things.

00:21:33 Marty

It's not.

00:21:34 Marty

The A or the B or.

00:21:35

Umm.

00:21:36 Marty

It's about really the ability to give back to an industry that's treated us all so well on that. Really you're having a type of people.

00:21:45 Marty

Yeah, I bet.

00:21:46 Marty

Yeah, you see some neat stories, I'm sure some.

00:21:48 Marty

Hey, Marty, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us and look forward to posting this up.

00:21:53 Marty

You.

00:21:53 Marty

I appreciate the invitation. Have a good look.

00:21:57 Todd

Well, that was my conversation with Marty Riesberg Electrical Training Alliance director. You can connect with Marty and what he's working on by heading to the links in the show notes.

00:22:05 Todd

I would love to hear your ideas for future shows.

00:22:07 Todd

Please don't e-mail me at podcast at Graybar com.

00:22:11 Todd

Hey, if you've enjoyed this episode, you can help us grow the show by subscribing and leaving a five star rating or thumbs up or follow in your favorite podcast player or on YouTube.

00:22:21 Todd

Thanks for listening to this episode of keeping the.

00:22:23 Todd

On.

00:22:24 Todd

And see you next time.

00:22:31 Marty

What advice would you give to a 18 year old Marty?

00:22:35 Marty

That's interesting.

00:22:36 Marty

I I think understand to realize that that your career and everything you do will evolve over time.

00:22:43 Marty

You know it when you're 18.

00:22:45 Marty

It's not necessarily where you ended.

00:22:47 Marty

In your career.

00:22:48 Marty

Did you and your career think you'd be?

00:22:50 Marty

Oh yeah, 18 year old, I thought.

00:22:55 Marty

Of course not.

00:22:56 Marty

Especially this industry. While our industry distribution, so many people are like I just walked in 'cause, I don't even know what distribution is and that was me.

00:23:04 Marty

That's the.

00:23:04 Marty

So what was?

00:23:05 Marty

I started in another construction trade and came log and decided that electrical workers so much better really wanted to understand the idea that.

00:23:16 Marty

While I was working in the other trade llama get shocked, but I was understand that a little bit better and.

00:23:23 Marty

Sort of played himself out, yeah.

00:23:25 Marty

Trade were you in?

00:23:26 Marty

So I was Carpenter Carpenter. OK.

00:23:28 Marty

Yeah, great.

00:23:29 Marty

Yeah, I've come to really love the trades because I didn't really have that in my life growing.

00:23:35 Marty

It just wasn't quite enough. People around me, and so it's just been so I'm like, man, it's a it's a great industry construction overall and electrical specifically has been really. I'm glad I'm in this.

00:23:44 Marty

And just the idea that we have that whole earwallard thing. Yeah, no, it's not the college debt.

00:23:49 Marty

Not all those other things that you.

00:23:51 Marty

Yeah, I I preach that. Since talking to people like you, you know, you and I've talked for years.

00:23:55 Marty

Now and other people in this, I'm like, if I talk to any young people or people looking for changes, I'm like, you never consider a trade, whether it's electrical or something.

00:24:03 Marty

Because you can get paid very.

00:24:05

Your excuse?

00:24:07 Marty

Yeah, I think it's great.

00:24:09 Marty

Well, you know, we talked about this.

00:24:10 Marty

I like to start out each episode 'cause you know, we're trying to talk about topics and best place to do that oftentimes is a meal.

00:24:16 Marty

Guess we could go grab lunch over there and sit here and have a meal, but we do that afterwards.